saying good-bye to a music legend. a popeye con. in just hours from now, thousands much fans will attend michael jackson's memorial service. an entire arena packed to remember a superstar. a possible twist in the search for a serial killer. a small town terrified. piv people killed over the past nine days. and now this in the past few hours, police say they shot and killed a robbery suspect. is this the monster they've been looking for? you're an important part of the show. give us a call 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us@cnn.com/"prime news" or text us at hlntv. start your message with the word prime. this is your chance to be heard.

controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome to "prime news." i'm vinnypolitan. just minutes ago, we learn that had michael jackson's relatives will hold a private service tomorrow ahead of the massive public memorial. this private gathering is scheduled for 8:00 a.m. pacific time. two hours before the scheduled memorial. and within hours, thousands will gather in los angeles, millions around the world will be gluds to their tvs to pay tribute to a global pop sensation. michael jackson, the man known all over the world as the "king of pop." he sold 750 million albums while he was alive and "thriller," the best selling album of all time. you know tomorrow's memorial at the staples center will be a huge events including some real big names like mariah carrey, stevie wonder, magic johnson and kobe bryant and brooke shields. joining me, jim moret correspondent for inside edition, also a lawyer, mike

brooks and on the phone natisha lance, producer for the nancy grace show, one of the few journalists to attend this memorial. natisha, how did you work that out? who do you know? >> i don't know anybody. but yes, i will be inside for the memorial tomorrow set to start at 10:00 a.m. now we are learning that the family will have a funeral for michael jackson two hours before at 8:00 a.m. at forest lawn. there's five locations. we're not sure exactly which location it will be at. there have been a slew of media camped out at the hollywood hills one. forest lawn is kind of a beacon. many people who are -- during the golden era were buried at forest lawn, nat king cole and the list goes on in terms of many, many celebrities have been buried there. >> natisha, and this will be a funeral, too, right? this is a private service but it will also be the funeral so michael jackson's body will be

buried? >> reporter: that's correct. that is what we are now hearing. >> jim more rarks you've been around the block a few times in l.a. tell us about this private ceremony. can they actually have a private ceremony? is that possible. >> i think so. i think that you've had private ceremonies before. you're always going to have the paparazzi trying to get a shot from a hillside or a building. but forest lawn, if it's the one in hollywood in the hollywood hills, the entire area is gated. you simply can't go on the premises. it's private property. and i think most of the media would respect that. you do have paparazzi who will try to get that shot. you know what? if they do, i hate to say it, but it would probably be worth a fortune given the fact i read the one shot of michael jackson in the ambulance went for $500,000 to an overseas tabloid. but i think that's smart to have the funeral and memorial on the same day because all the attention is going to be at the

staples center and allow the family their private time to grieve. >> mike brooks, how about trying to keep it a private dignified funeral ceremony for just the family? >> l.a.p.d. has been telling if you don't have a ticket to stay home. they're also encouraging people, don't go to the cemetery. sit back, watch it on hln and just don't come out because they are going to have a perimeter, vinny, around the staple centers and nokia theater that is unheard of. and they will have barricades up there, thousands of officers, l.a.p.d., california highway patrol and l.a. sheriffs will be able to handle it. i talked to assistant chief jim mcdonald. he said they're ready for it and he's encouraging people to stay home because a lot of the exits off the freeways will be closed you. won't be able to get basically into downtown l.a. tomorrow. >> ted rowlands is at the staple center.

thanks for joining us. let's talk a little bit about the fans picking up their tickets yesterday. was it yesterday or today did they pick them up? >> picking them up today at dodgers stadium. we're at stapales. these folks are coming by and sort of taking in the scene here. they're signing some murals put up outside the staples center. over at dodger stadium a few miles away, the fans that did win that lottery, the 1.6 million people tried to get tickets, the few thousand that actually got the tickets are coming to dodger stadium today. they have till today to pick up those tickets and wrist bands and as you can imagine, a lot of them are excited specially by when they get the tickets in their hands. >> the other thing that's going on today, obviously if you get a ticket or two tickets, people might be very tempted to sell those tickets or scalp those tickets. what types of precautions have they taken to prevent all this from happening? >> wuchbtd major things they're

doing, everybody who shows up has received a confirmation e-mail that they won the lottery. they have a secret pass code associated with their name. to get the tickets in the first place, they have to prove through this pass code that they're the actual person and given a wristband right away. they also bring in with them a rinted document that they received. they did apparently some people showed up with forged ones and copied one. they threw them out right away. another thing that's interesting is ebay has announced anybody trying to sell tibbetts on ebay, they're going to take it down right away. same thing on crates list, et cetera. they're doing their best. will somebody scalp them? absolutely. but they're trying to minimize the amount of people that try do that. >> jim moret, unbelievable. you can get a table massage but not michael jackson memorial tickets. >> it is interesting. it's not really illegal to sell these tickets in california, it's a misdemeanor if you scalp

tickets, but you can be off site and scalp tickets. that's how a lot of agencies get their tickets. this is supposed to be a memorial. it's not a concert, per se, even though we're expecting people to sing. i think the folks at aeg said pretty much on friday shame on you if you try to resell these things. >> all right. we're going to have one of those people who actually won that lottery, one out of the 1.6 million winners will join us. we'll also talk what to expect at this memorial and who's running the whole show. don't go anywhere.

i'm happy to be here, but then i'm so sad while i'm here the reason that i wouldn't ticket. so, i just can't stop crying, and i've never won anything in my life, and i won the tickets, and it's like so surreal. and i can't speak more. sorry. >> there's one of the winners of that lottery, 1.6 million people tried to get tickets. they only handed out about 8,000 or so. that was one of the winners. we have another winner with us on the phone, kat winnen. kat, first of all, congratulations i guess. you've won the tickets, you're going to the memorial. why did you enter the lottery to begin with into first of all, i live in los angeles. it was right in my backyard, why wouldn't i do it. the second is he meant a lot to me when i was in high school, "thriller" came out. i thought it would be one of those events that you want to

say you were there. >> what was your reaction when you heard that michael jackson had died? >> i was in total disbelief. you know, we had been talking about farrah fawcett earlier that day, and you know, i was watching the news at the time and i had gotten a text message to change it to another channel and i saw it and i just couldn't believe that it was real. i figure it had was going to be some kind i've mistake or a hoax. >> did you get two tickets? if so, who's coming with you? >> caller: i did get two tickets and provided that my boyfriend's lovely boss lets me out, we're going to be going together, my boyfriend and i. >> what do you expect to get out of going there? do you want to see a show? what do you want from this memory? >> i mean, i don't think there's going to be a bigger spectacular l.a. is going to see for a very long time. based on looking at the line-up, i think it's going to be a combination of a show and you know, a fitting tribute to somebody who meant so much to so many people. >> absolutely. kat widen, one of the winners

with us. unbelievable. natisha lance also with us who's going to be inside, as well. what doo we know about who's running the whole thing here? who is deciding what's going to take place at this memorial? >> well, the person who is behind it, first aeg has been largely involved but some of the people involved with production are people who work on the grammys. kobe bryant is going to be involved, magic johnson, brooke shields, jennifer hudson, barry gordie, john mayer. mariah carrey is another person. a lot of celebrity who are going to be involved and as the person who just received tibbetts said, it's probably going to be a big show. so, everybody is very looking forward to what's going to happen tomorrow. i know that i certainly am. >> let's get to some of our callers. mand is in tennessee. good evening, amanda amanda, you're on the air. >> caller: hello? >> yes, you're on the air.

>> caller: hi, how are you? >> okay. >> caller: i was calling to make a comment about the death of michael jackson and tell a quick story about one of his songs saved my life. >> sure, amanda. >> caller: when i was 13 years old, my mother and grandmother were killed in an automobile accident, and i was so distraught i didn't see any reason for me to live. i was just going down a downward spiral and i had a gun with me one night and i was going to commit suicide. and i was sending out a farewell note to my family and friends and just as i was about to pick up the gun, the song "man in the mirror" by michael jackson came on the radio. and i heard the lyrics and just started to cry and cry and cry. and it just struck a chord with me. and i just had this chill down my spine, and i just -- i knew

then that i didn't want to commit suicide, that i had to live to be able to help people and give back to the community and he was just such an inspiration to me. that song literally kept me from pulling that gun. >> that's amazing. amanda, we're so glad that that song came on at that time. thanks for the call. wow, the power of music, jim moret and the power of someone like michael jackson. i guess that's part what have this experience is going to be at this memorial. >> it is. and the producer kenner lich associated with a lot of award shows said in the future there may be tributes and there certainly will be. this is a memorial service. he says it won't have all the bells and wilves, they want to keep it low key. it's very difficult given the size, you talk about 1.6 million people trying to get tickets. and you ask that person why they wanted to get ticks? my daughter's and i tried to get tickets. i did get this, this is a wristband which lets me go outside. "inside edition" has one ticket for inside.

there's several of us lobbying for that right now. >> we're going to come back with more. we want to hear from you. 1-877-tell-hln.

back to "prime news." disturbing new details into nfl star's steve mcnair's death. apparently his 20-year-old girlfriend purchased a gun days before his death. that's what her family is telling the associated press. mcnair was found shot to death saturday. his girlfriend found dead beside him. cops ruling his death a homicide. call in 1-877-tell-hln. got more on michael jackson. some legal maneuvering and things happening today associated with the will of michael jackson. who is going to be in charge? natisha lance, producer for the nancy grace show, it seems

katherine jackson now has lost control of the will, of the estate because she's not named as the executor. >> that's right. in court today, the judge did turn over control to the executors of the will john branca and john mcclain. there will be another hearing on august 3rd to figure out who is the permanent person in control of the estate. for now, they temporarily have it. now, they do have to go back to the court to seek approval if there's anything they're planning to do with the assets. one of the things they did mention is they want to reconcile some of the debts had he. there are some liabilities that he had with aeg just recently. so they want to be able to reconcile some of those. however, katherine jackson will have the opportunity to be made aware what they are doing as well and if she finds it to be something that's improper, they do have the opportunity to go back into court and to on the to those. >> jim moret, how does this change everything in terms of

michael jackson's estate? having control, being the executor here? because the beneficiaries are katherine jackson while she's living, the children and some goes to a charity. >> that part doesn't change, the people who are the beneficiaries. what changes is that katherine jackson doesn't get to call the shots essentially. michael made it clear in his will. he named specific people that he wanted to handle the business. and that's really -- john branca is the person who helped mike st. louis negotiate the contract buying the beatles' catalog and then merging several years later with sony. this is a person who understands the entertainment industry and michael jackson, as we heard in court, has a number of businesses and interests in companies dealing with the entertainment industry. soap basically, this is just a temporary hold. eventually, the will has to be brought into court, it has to be validated and deemed legal, but if that will is valid, then his wishes, michael jackson's wishes

have to be carried out. so while katherine jackson may, in fact, end up being the guardian for the children and will be a beneficiary, she can't control or call the shots as far as the money goes. >> and that's interesting. executor of a will, they don't do that work for free, right? there's money to be made there in administering such a huge asset? >> i'll tell you something it was interesting in court today. there were so many lawyers and you realized, there were just so many lawyers on all of these interests, and you think to yourself that at the time of the will, the estate was valued at some $500 million. who knows what it's worth? it could be worth much more in the future. you see that these albums are selling like crazy right now. he sold what, 450,000 albums in a week. we know new albums will come out. there's going to be a movie or a video of his last performance. >> we heard about this "thriller" broadway show, as well. >> it could be hundreds of millions of dollars. the executors get a fee and as

long as there's legal wrangling over this, the lawyers -- >> there's money to be made. >> this is a new industry, a new industry. >> natisha, anything new in the investigation? i understand there might have been search warrants issued today. >> there were three that were executed. we don't know what they were for or who they were targeting. but there were three more search warrants that were executed. keep in mind, there was another search warrant that led them back to the house previously, though it's just continuing on with the death investigation. >> all right. natisha lance, thanks so much. jim, mike, we'll see more from you. join us for live coverage of the memorial. it starts at 12:30 eastern with robin mead, a.j. hammer and jane velez-mitchell from "issues" right here on hln and another big story, the shooting death of quarterback steve mcnair. gggg

got more on the shooting death of steve mcnair shot multiple times. his girlfriend found dead next to him. was this a murder/suicide? everything is pointing towards that. what we're hearing tonight is that on thursday, the girlfriend purchased the gun from a private party. the gun that was found underneath her body. again, she had that one gunshot wound, close contact to the head. let's bring back in bruce levy, medical examiner whose office did both of these autopsies. bruce, how much -- how many factors do you guys take into account when determining murder or homicide versus suicide and manner of death? how much beyond the autopsy do you go in terms of other things you consider? other factors?

>> well, really, that whole question you asked really pertains to the whole issue of the manner of the death. the causes of the death here are pretty obvious. they're the result of gunshot wounds. but it's how these things occurred that become important. that's where we work really closely with law enforcement to try and answer those very questions. in some cases, it can be very obvious. in other cases, it can be a lot more obscure, and as for facts, any facts can be important. so we try to look at as many things as we can. >> mike brooks, i look at this case and look at motivation, why did this all happen? obviously it's a boyfriend, girlfriend situation. it's a domestic situation. passions rise. i'm looking at four wounds on steve mcnair. two in the chest, two in the head. this sounds like a crime of passion. >> you know, it does. two in the chest and as dr. levy said, one on each side of the head. it does sound like a crime of passion. but they wanted to make sure.

dr. leavery is right. they want to make sure they cross all the ts and dot all the is just to make sure it was not chajed. vinny, i've seen some crimes, some homicides that people try to stage it to look like a suicide. they want to make sure they're covering all the bases. >> when does an investigator convinced that we don't need to go any further with this investigation? what are the things they're going to look at at a crime scene like this where if you wanted to make it look not like a murder, this is the way you would do it. >> right. the door was locked from the inside espn is reporting and there was only one other person that had a key. that was his former bodyguard. big daddy gaddy. he went over to the apartment and he is the one that actually opened the door and find the two dead inside the condo. these are all facts that play into the investigation early on. but you know, as dr. levy said,

they're making sure they will cover all their bases. they've got the most experienced homicide detectives in nashville on this caseworking it. i'm saying we'll probably hear something probably within the next day or so. >> dr. levy, when do you expect the final autopsy report will be done and you'll be able to determine for sure from your perspective, manner of death here? >> the final autopsy report won't be ready until after we get toxicology which will probably be four weeks, perhaps a little bit shorter or longer depending upon the complexity of testing. in terms of a final determination of manner of death, as dave said, that could happen any day now. it's basically as we get in this information, at some point, the police and our office are going to be convinced that this was or was not a murder-suicide. >> dr. levy, we appreciate your time. mike brooks, as always, great to have you with us. this girlfriend, sahel kazemi on thursday got this the gun from a private party. so, they believe it was her gun

that was found at the scene underneath her body. all right. a possible serial killer on the loose in a small south carolina town. five people have been killed since last week. cops are telling people to stay inside. avoid walking around alone. give us a call, 1-877-tell-hln.

you're an important part of the show. we want to know what you think.

call us at 1-877-tell-hln or shoot us an e-mail at our website cnn.com/primenews. plus, we have text messaging. text your comment to hlntv. that's 45688. start your message with the word prime so we can find it. include your name and state if you have room. we'll show your text messages throughout the program. a possible serial killer is terrorizing a small town in south carolina. five people have been murdered in the past nine days. no one's been arrested. now we've got breaking news. there's a possibility this guy was shot and killed by police earlier today. let's bring our geoffs in on this one. joining me now criminal profiler pat brown, hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks and reporter from wspa, chris cato. chris what, do we know about this police shooting in north carolina, any connection to what's happening down in south carolina? >> reporter: that remains to be seen right now.

but there does appear to be promise of a break in this case. this morning a shooting occurred at a home in gastonia, north carolina, about 30 miles from her where we are in gaffney. it came in as a burglary call. a woman saw suspicious behavior in a home across the street. police find three people in the home. one of the man had an outstanding warrant. the guy they say pulls a gun and shoots the police officer in the leg. the officer returns fire, killing that suspect. now, here is what has this serial killer task force so interested. they say there was a vehicle that the man that they shot was in a ford explorer suv that is very similar to the vehicle that the suspect in the serial killings here in gaffney was seen driving. they also say he is a very close physical match. he's a large man about 6'2", 250 pounds with a similar type face and wearing a ball cap. and so they're questioning now the two people that were inside that home with the man.

our reporter on the scene there in gastonia says that the two people actually own the home and they say they met the man at a bar and he needed a place to crash for the night. they were simply giving him a place to stay. so they may have not had any prior knowledge of this individual. so neighbors there are concerned that this couple may have been harboring a serial killer unknowingly. all of these details are still forthcoming. police are trying to positively identify this man that was shot in this police shooting situation and see if he is their match for what has been happening in south carolina. >> chris, are there any witnesses who would be able to identify the person who was shot positively as the serial killer? when i say witnesses, witnesses from south carolina. >> witnesses from south carolina that were involved in the serial killings here? >> yeah. >> that's one of the things investigators in the task force are going through right now. they're going to have to bring

in these people that have had the eyewitness encounters with the suspect and see if they think this is their man that they saw. very few people got a look at this guy at the murder scene in south carolina. they have to bring the people in and see if they can make a positive identification and see if he matches the description of the person they saw at the killings here. all still in the works right now. >> unbelievable developments. let's bring in our criminal profiler pat brown. pat, the town is terrorized, all this taking place in the ten-mile square radius, all these shootings and five deaths in nine days all in this small area. what does that tell you? >> it tells me it's not a serial killer but a spree killer. spree killers have something going wrong in their life or just killed their wife and mother and you find them dead in the house a week later. something went wrong in his life and he starred killing and killing and expected he was going to get shot down by police. this is suicide by cops. so the guy in north carolina matches very well to what this guy would be doing. it was just a warrant you're

going to commit suicide by cop? why, it doesn't make sense unless you're the one who committed the other crimes and you knew you were going to go down. >> you say spree killing. two homes and one business, doesn't seem to be consistency. the ages ranging from 15 to 83 of the victims here. >> right, a spree killer wants his last hurrah. he's like a mass murderer but in slow motion. the same kind of concept. he hates life, he wants his last moment in the sun and he's going to take himself across the country or across just 30 miles and kill and kill and kill until somebody stops him. that will be his last laugh at everybody. >> mike brooks, how about those developments today, what took place up in north carolina? >> i can tell you i just got done communicating with a law enforcement source who's close to the investigation. and as we speak, the director and deputy director of the south carolina law enforcement division are enroute to gaffney right now because they believe this is a positive break in the

case. let me also tell you, they are able to link the five shootings in south carolina to ballistics. that's what they're waiting right now. we could get it any time, the ballistics to come back to see whether or not the same gun was used in north carolina as in south carolina because it was only about 34, 35 miles northeast of gaffney. all along, this whole case, north carolina and south carolina law enforcement officials have been talking to each other because it was so close, gaffney is so close to the north carolina line. >> there you see photos of all the victim raging in age between 15 and 83. >> vinny, if i could add one other thing, too. the composite drawing we've been seeing over the last number of days that, came from eyewitnesses, two of them in south carolina that saw this guy. and through their interviews and with the composite artist, they were able to come up with this sketch. i'm hearing also that the sketch is very close to the guy in north carolina who was shot dead

by police. >> so that's another great development. so you have an opportunity to match-up the guy in north and south carolina through ballistics, through the gun and witness identification. >> exactly. >> so two opportunities to tie this thing up. hopefully that's the case because the folks in this town, everyone is grabbing their guns and fearing for their lives. thanks to all our guests. unbelievable developments in south carolina tonight purchase back to our top story. the death of legend michael jackson and now the ugly custody battle over his children. there are reports that his ex-wife debbie rowe is going to fight tooth and nail for these children. she's the biological mother of the two oldest but gave them up years ago. she's had a change of heart? or does she really stand a chance? we're taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

coming back to the big story of the day, of course, i'm talking about the death of michael jackson. "prime news" correspondent richelle carey joins us now. what's the latest on the pop star's estate, richelle? >> you're a lawyer. you will appreciate all this. a los angeles judge granted control of jackson's asset totsz executors of his 2002 will. jackson's attorney john branca and music executive john mcclain. they are the coexecutors and long-time friends of his, as well. they're now responsible for protecting the estate from any immediate losses and also will keep control of his will at least till august 3rd, the date of the next court hear. jackson's mother katherine is not happy about the ruling. her lawyer says she is worried about maclean's and branca's financial leadership. katherinehan applied for oversight to her son's estate but that was before the will surfaced. also new today, online ticket winners for tomorrow's big memorial began arriving at dodger stadium early this

morning. that's where more than 8,000 ticket packages are being handed out. each includes two tickets and wrist bands. both are required to get into either venue. that's the staples center or the nokia theater across the street. also, the jackson family has 9,000 tickets reserved in their name but they cannot forget this is really about them and they can do what they want with those 9,000 tickets. >> unbelievable. what do you do with 9,000 tickets? >> they've been famous for a long time and know a lot of people. this is about them, not guests. >> thanks. now while fans across the world mourn michael jackson, there's a fierce custody battle over his kids. debbie rowe is jackson's ex-wife, the biological mother of 12-year-old prince and 11-year-old paris. she hasn't had contact with them for years but now her former attorney tells "people" magazine she is ready to fight for them. even willing to take his third child to keep them together. right now, jackson's mother katherine has temporary custody of the kids.

she wants permanent custody. looks like this is going to get worse and worse, day by day. here's rowe just last night in a heated run-in with the paparazzi. >> debbie, are you ready to fight for your kids, debbie? >> you know what? don't touch me. do not touch me! >> nobody touched you here. >> you just did. don't. >> are you ready to fight for your children? >> are you ready to get your butt kicked? don't [ bleep ] touch me. >> are you willing to take a cash settlement for the kids? how important are the kids to you, debbie. >> god bless you and your children, debbie. >> are you ready to fight for your kids, debbie? do you think she's ready to fight? >> wow. so if she really does want these children, does she stand a chance? jennifer brandt, a family law attorney and jim moret from "inside edition." jennifer, let me begin with you. there she is, there was debbie rowe, hasn't had contact with these children for quite some time but looks angered, she's

fired up. her lawyer saying she's ready to fight for these children. does she have a chance? >> if she is the biological mother of these children, she certainly stands in line to get these children. she has the most rights to them being a blood relation to the children but she's been absent from their lives for quite a long time and michael jackson who was the primary custodian of the children names his mother as the guardian. so his wishes were that they go with his mom. it's going to be a battal for sure over who's going to get them. >> how does the court deal with that when you've got a parent that says this is what i want to happen if i die and someone saying by the way, i'm the biological mother, i've got rights here. >> exactly. biology will it take precedent over what another parent want. did she really terminate her rights to the children, which would be very hard to do if there wasn't someone out there to adopt them. the court can always look to the best interests of the children and what would really be -- who

do they know best? what would be really be best for them? do they know the grandmother better? have know the grandmother better? have they spent more time with her? would that be a more southeastern, calm life than debbie rowe who's been sort of in and out of their lives for a long period of time? >> we've got tracy in canada. >> caller: i was wondering if debbie rowe was forced to give up her rights. >> i think debbie rowe probably got a lot of money to give up her rights to the children. twice. >> he let's bring in jim moret on that. i recall this whole thing, the battle back and forth and hearing these stories about millions and millions of dollars going to debbie rowe, but she's saying michael's a great guy, he should be the father, i shouldn't be the mother. what's the story behind all that? >> she reportedly received $8.5 million to give up her parental rights, and a court should-some years later, i believe 2004, determined she had not given up her parental rights, which is why she's still in the picture. and you know, it is troublesome

because you've got two children from debbie rowe and then another child not from her. you don't really want to split up the kids. they were 7, 11, and 12. it would be really devastating, i think, to split these kids up. >> but she has no right to that third child. she has no biological connection to the child. >> correct. >> she wasn't even married to michael when the child was born. when it comes to the third child debbie rowe is out of luck. >> we're going to talk much more about this. we want to hear from you as well. give us a call. 1-877-tell-hln. who should have custody of michael jackson's three children in let us know.

saying good-bye to a music legend, a pop icon. just a few hours from now thousands of fans will attend michael jackson's memorial service. an entire arena packed to remember a superstar. a possible twist in the search for a serial killer. a small town terrified. five people killed over the last nine days. and now this. just in the past few hours police say they shot and killed a robbery suspect. is this the monster they've been looking for? you're an important part of the show. give us a call. 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. start your message with the word "prime." this is your chance to be heard. >> controversy.

opinion. your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome to "prime news." i'm vinnie politan, in for mike galanos. this just in to us here at hln. we've now learned that michael jackson's relatives will hold a private service tomorrow ahead of the massive public memorial. this private gathering is scheduled for 8:00 a.m. pacific time, two hours before the scheduled memorial. for that thousands of fans will gather in los angeles, and millions around the world will be glued to their tvs, all to pay tribute to a global pop sensation. michael jackson, a man known all over the world as the king of pop. he sold over 750 million albums while he was alive. and "thriller," the best-selling album of all time. tomorrow's memorial at the staples center will be a huge event, including some big names like mariah carey, stevie wonder, magic johnson, kobe bryant, brooke shields. that's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. joining me now to talk about all this, jim moret, chief correspondent for "inside edition," and hln law

enforcement analyst mike brooks. jim, let me begin with you, jim. let's talk about what's going to happen tomorrow before the memorial. at 8:00 a.m. a private service for the family of michael jackson. do you expect that they can keep this thing away from the throngs of media and the public that want to be a part of the burial of michael jackson? >> well, i think you're going to have people staking out the house and trying to follow the family. and do i think we'll find out where the burial is taking place? yes, i do. do i think the people will be kept out? yes, for the most part. i mean, you may have some aerial shots and things like that. but i think that it's probably a good idea to have this huge memorial at the staples center on the same day just a couple hours after the private funeral because most of the attention's going to be at the staples center, on the memory it willself, and not on the burial, which is going to be a private matter. it's a private affair.

and there's nothing really to see. if it's at forest lawn in the hollywood location it's gated, you can't get in, and i just don't believe people are going to be climbing the fences. but i do think unfortunately in the world we're living today that if there's a shot of the casket that shot will be worth quite a lot of money for a tabloid. >> all right. ted rowlands from the staples center, where it's all going to happen tomorrow. the public memorial service. ted, what do we expect to happen inside? how much are they telling us about the nature, the tenor of what this memorial service is going to be about? >> well, we're not hearing a lot about the tenor, but you listed off some of the expected participants. so you can expect that there will be some performances and then there will be a lot of folks just getting up and speaking to the crowd. but you know, you're talking about a huge venue here, staples center, and thousands of people. and you're talking about a producer that produces the grammys heading the production of this. so i'm sure that there w a lot high-end production to go along

with that incredible list of suspected participants. >> and mike brooks, i've got to guess that there's going to be tens of thousands of people who might want to think about going toward the staples center tomorrow without a ticket just to catch a peek of everything that's going on. that's going to be kind of tough, don't you think? >> it's going to be very tough. the lapd -- and i talked with assistant chief jim mcdonald. he said they are setting up a very, very large perimeter around the nokia theer and the staples center and you will not be able to get anywhere near it. in fact, end of last week he was encouraging people to stay home and watch it on tv. you know, but if you do venture down for business outside of this perimeter to take public transportation. but he said that the lapd, the california highway patrol, and the l.a. sheriff's office, they are ready for the crowds, they're ready to keep people away from there, and they also will be out near forest lawn to make sure that order is kept there also. >> now, someone who is going to get inside tomorrow joins us now on the line. elizabeth amezcua.

she won tickets to the memorial. elizabeth, thanks so much for joining us. tell us why. why did you decide to enter that lottery? >> because i've been the biggest -- big fan from michael jackson ever since the '80s, and i love all his music. and i think he's a really great person and he's helped so many people. unfortunate people. children especially. and i'm very fond of him and all the work that he's done for the past years and that will continue on after his death. and i truly honor him. and you know, it was a pleasure for me and an honor to be able to go to this place tomorrow. >> and you got two tickets, i assume, elizabeth. who are you going to go with? >> yes, i did. i'm going to take my younger brother. >> when you say younger brother, is this someone who knows michael jackson the way you know michael jackson or is he much younger? >> not really. but basically, just between, you know, our family and myself that we talked to him, but he does enjoy the music. and you know, his dancing. just pretty much everything

about him. >> all right. let's go to a caller. christine in texas. good evening, christine. you're on the air. >> caller: hi. >> hi, christine. you're on the air, christine. >> caller: oh, okay. well, he's a living legend now. he's -- he inspired a lot of people to pursue what they wanted to pursue in the same >> has michael jackson influenced anything you've done in your life? maybe you thought about something through the lyrics of a song or perhaps decided to get into the arts? >> caller: no. i just like his music a lot. >> can you moonwalk, christine? can you moonwalk? >> caller: it makes me move a lot. as a matter of fact, to get up and exercise to his music and everything. like the song "thriller." >> all right. and i'm sure you'll be watching tomorrow, christine. right? >> caller: yeah. i'm over here in texas.

so i'll be watching it. >> all right. thanks so much for the call, christine. you know, folks all around the world, and they're predicting hundreds of millions of people may tune in to actually watch this memorial. and then there's the fortunate few like elizabeth amezcua who will actually be inside tomorrow. more on michael jackson. give us a call.

i'm going, baby!

>> another one of the lucky fans of michael jackson who will be able to pay tribute to michael jackson at the memorial. it's all happening tomorrow. a lot of special coverage here on hln. this is where you want to watch what's going on, folks. what do you think about all this? you know, what are you going to be doing tomorrow? 1-877-tell-hln. let's go to millie, who's in california. good evening, millie. you're on the air. >> caller: hi, vinnie. this is millie from wildemar, california. i am a 70-year-old woman -- >> you sound so young, millie. not that 70 is old. but you sound like you're 30. >> caller: oh, thank you. i feel like it sometimes. but i just have been so affected by michael's death. i've listened to a lot of country music and missed out on michael jackson's music. >> are you starting to listen to it now? >> caller: pardon me? >> are you starting to listen to it now? everybody is downloading this music. have you been listening to it?

>> caller: i haven't been yet, but i will be. >> make sure you do it, and make sure you tune in tomorrow because it's going to be quite a tribute to michael jackson. thanks so much, millie. we appreciate it. >> caller: and his song of "gone too soon" just applies too much to him. and i miss him. >> thank you so much, millie. we appreciate it. those sentiments are going to be shared by folks all around the globe. don't forget, michael jackson, huge star in the united states, but a global superstar, global icon. and i can just imagine everyone at work getting online to watch what happens tomorrow morning. and folks who were home, fortunate enough to watch on tv tuning in of course to hln. let's go to aaron in michigan. good evening, aaron. you're on the air. >> caller: hello? >> aaron, you're on the air. >> caller: sorry. hi. how are you? >> okay. >> caller: first off, i'd like to say my prayers out to the jackson family, friends, and all the fans and everybody. it's just a shame that all the stuff michael's done for years

and years and years contributing to funds and everything. and nobody's going to appreciate it when it was done or recognize it now that it's gone. they recognize it. and then when he went through all his trial and everything else, you know, everybody thought he was guilty of stuff. i mean, how could somebody -- an icon like that go through that and not hurt him? i mean, that's got to be so hurtful for a person to go through. i mean, he is human. and then, you know, now that he's gone, you know, people that didn't believe in him believe in him now. >> i understand what you're saying, aaron. i really do. and we appreciate your call. jim moret, how about that? you know, michael jackson was a guy -- i remember "we are the world." obviously, we remember he spearheaded that whole project. but did a lot of great things for charities. and yet it seems like in these latter years the headlines

really weren't about that anymore. they were about all the controversy, court cases and accusation that's were made. but michael jackson did do a lot of good charitiable work, didn't he? >> he did a lot of good charitable work, and i don't know anybody trying to take that away from him now. i think the focus for the last few days certainly has been on his legacy of music, his legacy of charities. as far as the accusations go, look, there was one case in the early '90s that was settled out of court for millions of dollars. then the criminal trial just a few years back that ended up in 14 counts of not guilty. but there were positions that michael jackson put himself in that really were poor judgment. he did admit publicly that he slept with kids. now, there's no one -- i'm not suggesting that he did anything. but by his own words he put himself in a position where he was open to ridicule. and his many plastic surgeries opened him up to ridicule and being called odd and all that. but i think his real legacy, and we're going to see it tomorrow

at this memorial, will be his music. that's something that will outlive him clearly. and a new generation is going to be opened up to it and i think will embrace it. >> mike brooks, you know, everyone knows you as a law and order guy. when it comes to michael jackson, though, and the memorial and what's going to happen tomorrow, are you going into this thing with mixed emotioned or do you think it's a day where we can all kind of put aside everything else and just remember the good parts and the music? >> you know, vinnie, i think we can all put aside all the accusations and everything else because you know, i was out there and actually broke the story that there was actually an arrest warrant for michael jackson in santa barbara. but i think we can all put that aside tomorrow and just celebrate the life of michael jackson because he had different meanings to different people. and tomorrow i think just put that aside. and again, i would just encourage everyone to stay at home, watch on hln. and because, keep in mind too, chief mcdonald told me there will not be any jumbotrons near the nokia theater nor the crowds. staples center for overflow no accommodations at all for

overflow crowds. >> o'so to actually get down there and try to get closer to it you'll miss the whole thing. do what mike is telling you. we're coming back with more. you of course a big part of the show. 1-877-tell-hln. 

michael jackson and the memorial. what do you remember about michael jackson? let's go to leticia, who's in california. good evening, leticia. you're on the air. >> caller: hey. hello. i just wanted to give my opinion about michael jackson. >> sure. >> caller: i still have my white glove. >> you too?

>> caller: yes. i was a young adult in the 1980s, and me and my friends used to talk to michael jackson -- we used to go to all the parties, and when we'd be in nightclubs or anything like that we'd be -- >> you were in california in the '80s, right, leticia? >> caller: yes. >> so was i. maybe you saw me there one night with my red leather jacket on. >> caller: i'm calling from salinas, california. were you around here somewhere? >> i was in the bay area. i may have been wearing that red leather jacket. all the zippers. >> caller: i still have my white glove. and i'm sorry, but he's the greatest musician that i've -- in my lifetime. i'm now in my early 40s. so i'm really bummed out that i wasn't able to get tickets, but i guess i'll be like everyone else. >> you'll be watching it. >> caller: i'll be watching it. i'm always glued to the tv because i want to hear what they have to say. i'm really sorry that he passed away because for me he was a great hero. >> leticia, thank you so much for the call. we appreciate it. let's go to jim moret.

what do you expect in terms of viewership tomorrow? it's tough to gauge because events like this don't happen too often. it's a tuesday. it's 10:00. people have to work. but i've got to expect they're expecting people around the world to watch this thing. >> caller: well, the feed's being given out for free to all the networks. and unlike, say, the super bowl that's on one network, this is available everywhere. it's available on broadcast. it's available on cable. folks on hln are going to watch it live, i presume. you know, if you told me a billion people, i suppose it's possible. 100 million. i mean, i think that this is going to make -- it's probably going to dwarf the coverage for the super bowl or for the oscars or -- because it's a real worldwide phenomenon. look how many tickets sold in england. 750,000 people bought tickets to jackson's 50 concerts. that's unbelievable. he's the only entertainer today

that could sell out 50. they're looking for people who could fill out that arena now and they're looking at filling it between two or three different artists. i guess your guess is as good as mine. >> it will be interesting to see. let's take another call. sarah is in indiana this evening. good evening, sarah? >> caller: yes. >> you're on the air. >> caller: hey. how are you? >> okay, sarah. how about yourself? >> caller: i am doing fine. i'm calling in regards of the jackson brothers and their mom. stating that i apologize for the death of their son. and that you stated on there that who was going to get custody of his three children. to me from my heart that i think that michael jackson's mom should get the custody of them three children because just look back at the movie that they had of the jackson 5's growing up and how she supported them and loved them and cared for them.

and it just kind of -- >> from all reports that we have -- thanks so much for the call, sarah. are that yes, she absolutely adores those children. katherine jackson. we'll see. a little later in the show, the ugly custody battle over the children takes center stage. there are reports that his ex-wife, debbie rowe, is going to fight tooth and nail for them while she decides what to do. is all the chaos around jackson getting to debbie rowe? >> are you ready to fight for your children? >> do not touch me! >> nobody touched you here. >> you just did! don't! >> are you ready to fight for your children? >> are you ready to get your butt kicked? don't [ bleep ] touch me. >> are you willing to take a cash settlement? >> and what about u.s. representative calling michael jackson a pervert? did he cross the line? we've got that on the way.

[ music ] >> welcome to comcast local edition, i'm donna richardson, and my guest this hour is christine bergmark who is the executive director of the southern maryland agricultural development commission. welcome, christine, it's good to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> that's a big mouthful, and i know that you're working on an extremely exciting program, bi-local challenge. >> it is an initial that we launched two years ago, and essentially what it is is the last full week of july we ask everyone across the state of maryland and beyond to take a pledge, and the pledge is eat something or drink from a farm every day during that week. >> oh. so where do we get the

information about where to find the farms or how do we sign up for this pledge? >> well, there's a website. it's www.by-local-challenge.com that website will give you all sorts of information why to buy local and where to buy local and it connects you to other statewide initiatives that are going on at the same time. if you go to the website, we've added a count. people used to say, where do i sign up? normally you have to go buy, eat something from a local farm. this year we decided to add a counter to the website. when you are' counted, you can receive a certificate with your name on it that you can put up in your office or your home or wherever. >> which is very, very important. it's reduces your carbon foot print because you're driving hopefully a shorter distance, you have access to local

products that are available, and also it helps the farmers. >> well, and in fact, our theme this year is healthy plate, healthy planet. all kinds of benefits to buying local, benefits for you, healthy, nutrition, it's fresh, and preserving our farms survive, we keep clean water, we keep clean air, we reduce the carbon footprints from things traveling 1500 miles, and it tastes good. >> exactly. now for those people who may not cook, how can they be a part of this? >> yeah, sometimes people say, well, i hate to cook. that's okay. you can go to a store or to a restaurant that features local farm products, and there are more and more restaurants every year, some of them are on our website, and you can click throughout to find out who they are,. >> what kind of items can we acquire localfully. >> during the last week of july,

there is so much product available. there's sweet corn, blackberries, all kinds of tomatoes and melons are in season, and of course, there's always wine, cheese, eggs, meatss. >> so we do have a wide variety of things we can get. say that i go and i go to a local farmer's market and purchase something, what is a vegetable that i'm not quite familiar with, how did i find a recipe. >> excellent question. there are recipes on our website. people can post their own recipes of their own events and own blogs by why they buy local. some of the things i wanted to mention is the economic benefits. we talked about the planet, we talked about the fact that it tastes good, and it's fun, but there's also the benefit of supporting our farms, and if

every household in the state mucofmaryland were to buy just 2 worth of products for 8 weeks, basically the summer season that, would put $200 million straight back into the pockets of our farmers. that would do a lot to keep our farmers thriving. >> which is so important. i know we have less than 30 seconds, but you have some partners that you wouldn't typically think of who have now joined in. >> yes. hospitals are joining in this year. fact, they're looking to do a competition to see how many people they can get involved. >> have you exciting. christine, thank you very much for coming in today. >> thank you. >> my guest today has been christine bergmark with the southern agricultural commission. if you're interested in what comcast is doing in your area, go to on demand and click get local. for comcast local edition, i'm donna richardson. [ music ]

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got more on the shooting death of steve mcnair, former nfl quarterback, shot multiple times. his girlfriend found dead next to him. was this a murder-suicide? well, everything's pointing toward that. and what we're hearing tonight is that on thursday the girlfriend purchased a gun from a private party. the gun that was found underneath her body. again, she had that one gunshot wound, close contact, to the head. let's bring back in bruce levy, medical examiner, whose office did both of these autopsies. bruce, how much -- how many factors do you guys take into account when determining murder or homicide versus suicide and manner of death? how much beyond the autopsy do you go in terms of other things you consider, other factors? >> well, it really -- that whole question you asked really

pertains to the whole issue of the manner of the death. the causes of the death here are pretty obvious. the result of gunshot wounds. but it's how these things occur that become important. and that's where we work really closely with law enforcement to try and answer those very questions. in some cases it can be very obvious. in other cases it can be a lot more obscure. and as for facts, any facts can be important. so we try to look at as many things as we can. >> you know, mike brooks, i look at this case and i look at motivation. why did this all happen? and obviously, it's a boyfriend-girlfriend situation. it's a domestic situation. passions rise. i'm looking at four wounds on steve mcnair. two in the chest, two in the head. this sounds like a crime of passion. >> you know, it does. two in the chest, and as dr. levy said one on each side of the head, it does sound like a crime of passion. but they want to make sure. and dr. levy is right. they want to make sure they cross all the ts and dot all the

is -- >> mike -- >> just to make sure that it was not staged because vinnie, i've seen some crimes, some homicides that people will try to stage it to look like a suicide but they just want to make sure they're covering all the bases. >> that's what i was going to ask you, mike. when does an investigator know, or when is an investigator convinced that you know what, we don't need to go any further with this investigation? what are the things they're going to look at at a crime scene like this where if you want to the make it look not like a murder this is the way you would do it? >> right, exactly. but one of the other things too, espn was reporting that the door was locked from the inside. there was only one other person who had a key to that apartment. and these are all these factors that are playing into it. and that's his former bod guard and one of his best friends. they call him big daddy gaddy. he could not find him that night, woefrnt to the apartment, and he's the one that actually opened the door and found these two in the apartment. these are all facts that play into the investigation early on. as dr. levy said they're making sure they're covering all their

bases. they got the most experienced homicide detectives in nashville on this case working it. and i'm probably -- i'm saying we'll probably hear something in the next day or so. >> that's what i was going to ask dr. levy. when do you expect the final autopsy report will be done and you'll be able to tell from your perspective the manner of death here? >> the final autopsy won't be ready until we get toxicology, which will probably be four weeks, perhaps a bit shorter or longer depending upon the complexity of testing. but in terms of a final determination of manner of death, as dave said, that could happen any day now. it's basically as we get in this information at some point the police in our office are going to be convinced that this was or was not a murder-suicide. >> dr. levy, we appreciate your time. mike brooks, as always, great to have you with us. again, this girlfriend, sahel kazemi on thursday got this gun from a private party. they believe it was her gun that was found at the scene underneath her body.

all right. a possible serial killer on the loose in a small south carolina town. five people have been killed since last week. cops are telling people to stay inside, avoid walking around alone. give us a call. 1-877-tell-hln.

now we've got some breaking news. cops may have caught the serial killer. south carolina law enforcement

sources close to the investigation say he was the suspect shot and killed by police this morning. a serial killer has brutally murdered five people in gaffney in the past nine days. let's bring in our guests on this one. hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks. mike brooks not ready. there's the sketch of the man. now, earlier today in north carolina there was a man that was there with two people he had just metaapparently the night before at some bar. there was some sort of skirmish inside. so a neighbor calls police. in north carolina, not south carolina. police show up to this disturbance, they find out that one of the men has a warrant out for him. so they attempt to arrest him. at that point he pulls out a gun, he shoots police, police shoot and kill him. the police officer survives. but this man dies. and apparently, he is the man police are now saying is responsible for those five murders down in gaffney, south carolina. let's go to mike brooks, who joins us now. mike, this is a huge development

in this case. and i guess hopefully tonight folks down in gaffney, south carolina can breathe a big sigh of relief and put their guns away and perhaps sleep well tonight. >> vinnie, i tell you, i think they can. i just got off the phone with the south carolina law enforcement division, and they are confirming that it -- a positive identification through ballistics was made linking this man, who was shot by law enforcement early this morning, in gaston county, north carolina as the man responsible for the five murders in nine days in gaffney in cherokee county in south carolina. >> and what's amazing about this, mike, is that the investigation in north carolina was not at all related to the murder of these five people. it was completely separate. >> it was completely separate. but as we talked about earlier, law enforcement was headed that way from south carolina. the director and the deputy director sled because they had information which was leading them to believe that this was the guy and they were waiting

for the ballistics to come back to make the positive identification, that this in fact is the guy responsible for the five murders in south carolina. >> and this is unbelievable news for the folks down in south carolina because it all happened in this small, small town within a ten-mile radius. five people murdered in three different incidents, ages 15 to 83. one attack happened at an office. it happened at a home. i mean, folks in town were loading up their guns. everyone was scared to go outside. law enforcement was telling them don't go outside because we don't know who this guy is and where he'll strike again. but tonight, folks, what we're learning is that an incident earlier today in north carolina, where police approached the house, they called to a disturbance, there was a man inside, apparently there was a warrant for him. this was the man responsible for those killings down in south carolina. police attempted to arrest him. he pulled out a gun. they exchanged gunfire, and police shot and killed the suspect now.

so mike brooks, at this point of the investigation, yes, you've lined up the ballistics. is there anything else that you need to do to confirm this, or is that going to be enough for the folks of south carolina? for tonight at least to say hey, i don't have to worry about walking outside to go get an ice cream cone or something? >> law enforcement is pretty sure -- they're positive that this is the guy. they'll be continuing their investigation. it's been a great cooperative effort between the north carolina and south carolina law enforcement agencies to bring this case to a close. but the investigation still goes on because vinnie, we really don't know a motive. we're going to be finding out more about this guy in the coming hours. and you know, what was his motive for killing these people. five people within nine days. in that small community. so we'll be finding out more about this guy and what his motive was for these killings. >> and you know, if in fact he is the man, we believe he is, at least we spare the five families here to have to go through a

trial and be dragged through all of those proceedings. perhaps the case is over as we speak. but mike, i am amazed by how quickly law enforcement can in two different jurisdictions working together, can put together those ballistics tests. >> it goes back to good old-fashioned police work. and as i said the cooperative effort between north and south carolina, the cases began in sack sa south carolina. the cherokee county police officers the gaffney police and south carolina law enforcement division involved in this. all very professional agencies. they were able to gather that evidence, get it to the lab, do the comparisons. because as we had said, they were able to link the five in south carolina to the same gun, the same ballistics, and that's what's linking this guy with his description and the vehicle and everything else along with the ballistics, same gun that was used in north carolina. >> and mike, at this point we really don't know much about who

this guy is. >> no. we'll be finding out, again, who this guy is, what his motives for this were because initially it's thought it might have been one of the -- first murder they thought may have been a robbery motive. then you had the double inside that house, where an elderly person and a relative were tild. they're not sure what the motive for that killing was. you know, was this just a coldhearted killer, a spree killer, if you will, or was his motive actually robbery? >> unbelievable. again, repeating the headline, this is great news for folks down in gaffney, south carolina, that this suspected serial killer has been shot and killed in north carolina. police officers and investigators from north carolina, south carolina working together matching up the ballistics from those five murders with the shooting that took place this morning. because the suspect had a gun. he shot at police, but they shot and killed him. and he is now gone. and thank goodness for the folks

of south carolina tonight. great police work. mike brooks on top of it as always. >> thank you, vinnie. we'll talk to you again soon. we'll find out more about this guy. >> all right. back now to our top story, which of course is the death of music legend michael jackson. and the ugly custody battle over his children. there are reports now his ex-wife debbie rowe is going to fight tooth and nail for these children. remember she's the biological mother frt two oldest kids but she gave them up years ago. we're taking your calls. 1-877-tell-hln. 

be sure to join us for live coverage of michael jackson's memori memorial. it begins tomorrow at 12:30 p.m. eastern time with robin meade from "morning express." "showbiz tonight's" a.j. hammer. and jane velez-mitchell from "issues."

all that right here on hln. and while fans across the world mourn michael jackson, there's a fierce custody battle over his kids. debbie rowe is jackson's ex-wife, the biological mother of 12-year-old prince and 11-year-old paris. she hasn't had contact with them for years, but now her former attorney tells "people" magazine she is ready to fight for them, even willing to take his third child to keep them all together. right now jackson's mother katherine has temporary custody of the kids. she wants permanent custody as well. joining me now to talk about all this, jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues," and a.j. hammer, host of "showbiz tonight." both of you, fasten your seat belts. i want you to take a look at what we've been looking at all day long and i'm sure everyone has been. debbie rowe, with the paparazzi in l.a. take a look. >> debbie, are you going to fight for your kids, debbie? >> are you ready to fight for your children? are you ready to fight for your -- >> do not touch me! >> nobody touched you here. >> you just did. don't! >> are you ready to fight for

your children? >> are you ready to get your butt kicked? don't [ bleep ] touch me. >> are you willing to take a cash settlement for the kids? >> how important are the kids to you, debbie? >> are you ready to fight for your kids, debbie? do you think she's ready to fight? >> wow. well, looks like debbie rowe is primed for a battle here. whether it's with the paparazzi or perhaps with the jackson family over these three kids. let's begin with you, jane. watching that video, seeing debbie rowe, we haven't heard from her yet. and she looks like she's fired up. >> she certainly could argue that she would be a stern disciplinarian to the kids after that video, but i don't know that that's really the argument she wants to make. frankly i think it's appalling she's even considering seeking the custody of young children, especially young children who are going to be pursued by the paparazzi, if that's the way she reacts. and she has nobody to blame but herself for all the attention. she's the one who spoke for an hour and a half to a los angeles

reporter and said i want my kids and then has her attorney shortly thereafter make a statement saying, well, maybe, i'm thinking about it. she's a drama addict in my opinion. she creates all this hoopla, and then she plays the victim when people respond to the media sensation that she herself has created. >> a.j., jane being a little harsh on debbie rowe tonight. how about you? >> you know, i have a few different reactions when i see that tape. number one, you just mentioned, vinnie, this is the first time we're seeing her out in the public. not exactly to jane's point the kind of image that she should be putting out there if she is going to get involved with this custody battle. but i see that, and there's that piece of me that says, well, you can't really blame her. you see how the paparazzi is swarming around her and attacking her. however, then i'm thinking, you know what, she was married to michael jackson, not only should she know what this is all about, and she knows what it's like to be constantly hounded by press and paparazzi and have them in your face like that, she should know that if she does press forward with the custody battle

it's not going to get any better anytime soon. and then i'm thinking, more to jane's point, i see what she's saying, and you can't quite hear because it was bleeped out, that's not the woman i want taking care of my kids. >> well, looks like she's got a little temper. but you know-f you're being pushed around by the paparazzi, it's a tense moment, jane, i'm trying to make some arguments for her -- >> she really wanted chinese food. i mean, because she goes out on one of the most crucial days when she knows the paparazzi's going to be looking for her. can't she lay low for at least a week -- >> that's what i was thinking, jane. >> isn't she saying she's going to lay low, though, a.j., and not go to the memorial? >> well, yeah, that's what she's now saying. originally she did have her pair of vip tickets. and look, she was married to michael jackson. she was somebody who for a time was in his life. you can understand why she would want to be at the memorial. but then through her attorney released a statement today saying she's not going to be there because she doesn't want to detract from the attention of the day. and i actually think that's pretty appropriate.

if this is the kind of melee and chaos that surrounds debbie rowe, that's whatnot they need at a memorial service. >> no, not all. is this possible, jane -- hear me out on this, that for debbie rowe, the world was one way with the children when michael jackson was alive -- and i don't know if you truly believed this. she truly believed michael jackson was a great father to these children. and all right i have these children but i want michael to raise them. everything has changed because michael is gone now. maybe those maternal instincts come out, the biology comes fighting through and somehow screaming, hey, someone has to take care of these kids and i should be doing it. i'm biologically connected to them. their father isn't here. >> she gave up her parental rights. it doesn't matter that she tried to get them back. it only takes a certain amount of -- certain kind of personality to give up your parental rights at any point for any reason at any time. and the fact is that the timing of it -- i don't know what's on her mind. you might be right.

the time iing this is suspiciou. you hear one day, here is the jackson will. she is the only one specifically left out. and then right after that, we hear she's talking to a los angeles reporter saying she wants her kids. is there a connection between those two events? some would say it's pretty interesting that her comments came not before the will was opened and we found out she was specifically omitted, but after. >> all right. well, jane, i tried. i tried. i'm not going to convince you of anything tonight. stick tight, everybody. more jackson drama. new york representative called michael jackson a pervert and a low life. wow! did peter king go too far? don't go anywhere, folks.

administration is involved, et cetera. whatever michael jackson's demons were, we cannot discount the fact that he was a genius and his music transformed the world. he really set the stage for a post-racial society that we are, hopefully, experiencing right now with the election of an african-american president. he is the one who broke through the barrier and had

african-american performers finally on mtv, after years of resistance. he's the one who did videos like "black or white" where you saw the melding of races and genders and ages, creating this concept, which was new to us, of a world where we all see each other as humans first and individuals first, and whatever other categories we are second. and, unfortunately, i think he tried to do that with his own persona to much degree. >> short changed michael jackson, yeah, he sings pretty  good and he dances a little bit. jane and a.j., thank you very much. we'll see you at 12:30 eastern time with robin meade from "morning express." it's all our special coverage of the michael jackson memorial. catch more of jane up next on "issues" and a.j. hammer "showbiz tonight."